Saturday, 1 April 2017

FLEECING THE FLOCK - THE INIQUITOUS IMPOSITION OF TITHING IN WELSH "WORD OF FAITH / PROSPERITY GOSPEL" CHURCHES.

"But before faith came, we were kept under the law, 
shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, 
that we might be justified by faith. 
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."
(Galatians 3:23-26)

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."
(Galatians 5:18)


One of the most far-reaching and malignant of maladies in contemporary Christianity has been the gangrenous growth of what has become known as the Word of Faith (or simply Word-Faith) movement, which preaches the so-called "prosperity gospel." This, it is critically important to observe, is "another gospel" and so no Gospel at all! (Galatians 1:6-8). Not Good News for sure, but exceedingly Bad News!

Many are the spiritual deviances promoted by Word of Faith adherents, but one particular practice that is the nefarious norm in such churches and which I want to focus on in this article is the iniquitous imposition of tithing.

Iniquitous? Yes, indeed! Any teaching that runs contrary to Biblical truth is iniquitous! Firstly, I must emphasize that I am in no way speaking here against the principle of giving, for righteous and proper purposes, which is something that the New Testament most certainly supports and encourages. What I am highlighting here is the legalistic and completely unscriptural application of a church members' taxation system.


THE BIBLICAL TITHE

"And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham."
(Hebrews 7:5)

So what exactly was the tithe, from a correct Biblical perspective? Well, the first thing to take note of is that MONEY did not come into the equation! The tithe was all about EDIBLE assets! The Levites, comprising the Kohanim (the priests) and those of the tribe who were not Kohanim but had other religious or political duties, were not allocated any territory of their own as was the case with all the other tribes. They were instead granted a total of 48 cities across Israel, each set within a narrow verge of "borrowed" land extending a mere 1000 cubits - approximately 500 yards - around the walls, a small area which would allow some grazing space for the tithed animals brought to them. (See Numbers 35 and Joshua 21). Being thus unable to produce their own foodstuffs, God instituted the tithing system whereby the farming tribes were to give a tenth part of their meat, fruit and crops to sustain the Levites, who were not to be distracted from their designated duties by more mundane considerations. Tithes were taken to the Levite cities, from where a portion was delivered to Jerusalem to feed those engaged in Temple activities. (See Nehemiah 10).

Please don't take my word for it. Follow the Bereans' good example, and search out the Scriptures for yourself. Fact is, ALL Biblical references to tithing confirm it was FOOD! Here are a few examples to prove this important point:

"And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, 
or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD." 
(Leviticus 27:30)

"And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD."
(Leviticus 27:32)

"Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, 
that the field bringeth forth year by year."
(Deuteronomy 14:22)

"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, 
that there may be meat in mine house..."
(Malachi 3:10)



QUITE APART FROM THIS CONSIDERATION THAT THE TITHE WAS ONLY FOOD, WE SHOULD WELL NOTE THAT TITHING ONLY EVER APPLIED TO THE HISTORICAL NATION OF ISRAEL. IT HAS NEVER BEEN APPLICABLE TO GENTILES OF ANY ERA. 

Nowhere in the New Testament is to be found any justification whatsoever for transferring this Israelite, tribe-specific arrangement to the Church. Nowhere. The plain truth of the matter is that with the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. and the Diaspora, tithing had become a completely redundant institution. It had served its purpose, until that purpose ceased to exist. A New Covenant had been established, and post-Calvary the Mosaic Law of tithing had no place.

We pay tax to the Government of the land, a statutory obligation; we render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. The imposition of a second income tax payable by church members to the church leadership is a very convenient and most lucrative fund-raising contrivance, a word we might just shorten to con. I'm not mincing my words here; I'm saying it as it is. Anyone who teaches that tithing is a requirement of members of the Body is not upholding Scripture but perverting it, and no, that is not too strong a word to use. This is a different gospel, a most incredibly serious matter!

THERE IS NO LEVY ON BELONGING TO THE LORD!

Give by all means, from your means, as you are so led and able. But it must be clearly understood that such contribution is firmly a free-will offering, which when given in the right spirit for correct Christian purposes is pleasing to God and fully in accordance with His Word. Tithing is something altogether different: it's symptomatic of the empire-building of today's Laodicean leaders, and alien to the Kingdom-building of Christ. Any church that is misappropriating funds from the flock in this way should be studiously marked and carefully avoided.


THE TITHE IN WELSH "WORD OF FAITH / PROSPERITY GOSPEL" CHURCHES

Newport is undoubtedly the epicentre of the Word of Faith movement's alternative gospel in Wales, with notable tremors extending along the M4 corridor at least as far as Bridgend, which we'll come to presently. Firstly, though, we need to look at the central role played by King's Church and the man who was its long-time Senior Pastor, Ray Bevan, in the advance of Word of Faith concepts here in Wales. (His then Associate Pastor Dave Edwards has now taken charge, while Mr. Bevan has gone on to broadcast his own show with TBN, which is without a doubt the loudest echoing voice of the so-called "prosperity gospel" on the planet).

I'd like for a moment, if I may, to digress slightly from my focus on tithing in order to emphasize Ray Bevan's proven embrace of and regurgitating of Word of Faith beliefs, by reference to his recent book, 'Grace Shouts Louder.' (Rayla Ministries, 2015). Whilst I'd like to quote directly from this work, I have to avoid the possibility of being charged with copyright infringement. (Mr. Bevan has previously impressed upon me that - regardless of 1 Corinthians 6:1 - he is not averse to threatening people with legal action!) But I can refer my readers to an online source where his exact words can be found, if you would wish to verify the facts of the matter:


In a nutshell, the author here teaches one of the central tenets of Word of Faith theology, that when Adam sinned in Eden, Satan was thereby given legal right to rule the earth. Satan now had very much the upper hand, and God had completely lost His authority and somehow had to find a way to reclaim it. And so He devised a cunning plan to win his sovereignty back, kicking off with the Incarnation...

FRIENDS, IF FOR EVEN ONE NANO-SECOND GOD LOST HIS AUTHORITY, HE WOULD NOT BE GOD! IF HE WAS FOR ONE NANO-SECOND PUSHED INTO A CORNER, HIS BACK UP AGAINST THE WALL, AND FORCED TO DREAM UP SOME SCHEME TO RECLAIM LEGAL RIGHT TO THE EARTH AND HUMANITY, HE WOULD NOT BE GOD! HE IS THE ALMIGHTY, OMNISCIENT, TRANSCENDENT CREATOR AND PERMANENT LEGAL OWNER OF ALL THAT IS, AND WAS, AND WILL BE! HIS WORD UNEQUIVOCALLY PROCLAIMS THIS GREAT TRUTH:


"The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof;
the world, and they that dwell therein."
(Psalm 24:1)

To declare that it has ever been otherwise, is quite simply a denial of the eternal complete Sovereignty of God, and a most heinous heresy. Did the Psalmist, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in the period between the Fall and the Incarnation, record a LIE when he wrote this testimony? For if Mr. Bevan's WoF theology is correct, then the wording should have been, "The earth is SATAN'S, and the fulness thereof..." 

But playing fast and loose with the Scriptures does not trouble such a man as this. He goes on to declare, in respect of the supposed power of believers, that we can call those things which are not as though they are. No, Mr. Bevan, only God Himself can do that! Besides which, to make this assertion, you have wretchedly twisted the relevant verse, which actually reads:

"And base things of the world, and things which are despised, 
hath God chosen, yea, 
and things which are not, TO BRING TO NOUGHT things that are."
(1 Corinthians 1:28 - my capitalization)

Having so blasphemously demoted God to the position of being an impotent mere spectator of world affairs until He was able to concoct a cunning plan to regain control, Ray Bevan proceeds to teach the validity of tithing and to slur anyone who would dare to challenge this. The point here is that if Ray Bevan cannot be trusted to even teach properly on the eternally immutable nature of God Himself, how can he possibly be trusted to teach properly on the things of God? The sad and simple answer is that he can't be.

More wrong teaching pours from the pages of 'Grace Shouts Louder' as the author attempts to synthesize grace and law, calling tithing grace-based which is an utter contradiction in terms. Tithing is law, and binding. Grace is, well, grace, and liberating... allowing one to give freely according to the decisions of one's own heart, not the dictates of a leadership which thinks nothing of abusing the Word of God to re-activate rules which were completely superseded  by the Cross! 

Notable is Mr. Bevan's scathing and self-righteous condemnation of those who would rightly question the correctness of 21st. century tithing, as being Word-ignorant misers who do not trust God. This is pure - actually IMpure - emotional blackmail. For who would wish to have their Pastor and fellow-worshipers see them as being mean and immature Christians? To avoid being branded as such, folks are thus cynically manipulated into doing something to please men rather than to please God, the absolute reversal of how things should be. (See Galatians 1:10). If truth be told, this is not grace shouting louder; this is Ray Bevan shouting louder than grace!

Oh, and BTW Mr. Bevan, true grace never shouts. True grace speaks only in a still small voice... no thundering, just the gentlest of whispers...


ROBBIE HOWELLS AND HEATH VAN STADEN - TWO "PROSPERITY PIPPINS!"


I have given some emphasis here in this article to the skewed teachings of Ray Bevan, not just to draw attention to how King's was shaped under his controlling influence, but to alert people to how this has birthed two other similar operations in the same city.

As the old saying goes, the apple never falls far from the tree, and two such apples dropped off the King's bough, only to land elsewhere in Newport! The first such apple to feel the gravitational pull was Robbie Howells, who established his own Word of Faith operation called Newport City Church, to all intents and purposes a clone of King's complete with the inevitable tithing policy. An article on Robbie Howells and NCC, highlighting the very real concerns about them can be found here:

The second "Prosperity Pippin" to more recently branch out on his own (if you'll excuse the extended apple tree metaphor) was Heath Van Staden, who had been the Youth and Children's Pastor at King's. His Liberty Church was launched 31/1/15 with himself and wife Leah installed as Lead Elders, an outfit again aping King's and rather unsurprisingly implementing tithing as the essential basis of its finances.

(Who someone follows on Twitter can be very revealing as to their theological leanings, and when Mr. Van Staden follows the likes of Mark Driscoll, Bill Hybels, Joyce Meyer, Rick Warren, Richard Branson (!), Bill Johnson, Kris Vallotton, Casey Treat... need I say more?)


ALEX ASHTON AND THE VINE CHRISTIAN CENTRE IN BRIDGEND

A little way west along the M4 and we come to Bridgend and The Vine Christian Centre, Alex Ashton's own bastion of the Word of Faith/Prosperity gospel. I have had previous occasion to write of Mr. Ashton's apostate partnering with Kenneth Copeland - probably the biggest name in the whole "name-it-and-claim-it" brigade - and his complete lack of any response to my approaches to him on the subject. Please see:

http://watchman4wales.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/a-compilation-of-shocking-kenneth.html


The Vine operates tithing, and the "give-to-get" ethos typically engendered by Word of Faith false teaching on "health and wealth" is so very sadly evidenced here in The Vine's 'Tithe and Offering Confession,' this information being garnered from a visitor who personally witnessed a congregational chant along the following lines in a service there a few years ago:

Tithe and Offering Confession:

As we give today's offering,
We are believing the Lord for:
Jobs and better jobs,
Raises and bonuses,
Benefits and settlements,
Sales and commissions,
Estates and inheritances,
Interests and income,
Rebates and returns,
Cheques in the mail,
Gifts and surprises,
Find money,
Debts paid off,
Royalties received.
It's offering time -
Hallelujah!

Nothing whatsoever of believing the Lord for the advance of His Kingdom, only for the furtherance of one's own self-interests; the Gospel of grace has here grotesquely morphed into a gospel of greed.


JERRY SAVELLE AT THE VINE, BRIDGEND AND NEWPORT CITY CHURCH

As the guest of Welsh Word of Faith frontmen Robbie Howells and Alex Ashton, one of the Prosperity wolf-pack's hungriest wool-wearers is about to trot through the wide open doors of their respective sheepfolds. As part of his UK tour, Jerry Savelle will be at Newport City Church on 3rd. April, and at The Vine on 4th. April. If I might resort to using a musical analogy, Savelle is a one man Copeland tribute band, playing all the superstar's tunes with great gusto; if you can't get to a Copeland gig, Savelle would be the next best (worst!) thing.

If you should doubt for one moment Savelle's allegiances, see his fawning "Beautiful Are Their Feet" December 2016 tribute to Ken and Gloria Copeland here:

Birds of a feather indeed flock together, and that includes vultures...


It's more than interesting and relevant to record that Robbie Howells (full name Robert George Howells), like Alex Ashton before him, can now record on his CV a close collaboration with Copeland. He has been a Director on the Board of Kenneth Copeland Ministries (UK and Europe) since June, 2015. He also holds a Directorship in John Bevere's Messenger International Limited (UK and Europe); Mr. Bevere, it goes without saying, also perches on the selfsame rotten Word of Faith/Prosperity gospel branch. Mr. Howells' CV, you will find, tells us that he's a graduate of a certain Bible Institute and School of World Evangelism. Yes, it's the one run by Jerry Savelle Ministries International... 'Nuff said!

Very interesting to note too is that Jerry Savelle's UK and Europe office is located just a few miles to the east in Chepstow, and banks in Newport. The Administrator and UK Senior Pastor is Geoffrey Howard Rouch, a one-time business partner of Ray Bevan. One of the 5 trustees is Damian Pugh, who plays drums at Robbie Howells' Newport City Church. In such ways it can be glimpsed how the strands of the same WoF web interconnect, both historically and contemporaneously.


CONCLUSION

Of course, it's not only Word of Faith churches that have implemented tithing. In the Restorationist camp, for example, churches like the grandly-named 'Nationchangers' here in Merthyr Tydfil, have taken the same wrong route. We might note that none of these leaders who are so avidly applying the Mosaic Law of tithing are anything like as keen to apply the Mosaic Law of circumcision. Somehow, persuading people to part with their foreskin doesn't seem to have quite the same attractiveness as persuading them to part with their cash!

Through Christ's finished work on the Cross, we live under grace and not under law. The old has been superseded by the new. As the Scriptures gloriously declare:

"For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; 
by the which we draw nigh unto God...
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises."
(Hebrews 7:19, 8:6)

AND SO, MY FRIENDS, LET US REJOICE IN AND CLEAVE TO THAT WHICH IS BETTER! FOR THE LAW IS OUR PAST CONDEMNATION, BUT GRACE IS OUR PRESENT ABSOLUTION. AND IF THE SON HAS MADE US FREE, THEN WE ARE FREE INDEED! (John 8:36)

* * * * * * *

One final thought. I could suggest referring to Word of Faith as Word of LAODICEAN Faith, from which accurate appellation we'd derive the most appropriate acronym:


         
    
"WOLF!"

* * * * * * *

45 comments:

  1. Thank you. The wrong teaching about Eden crops up time and again. I seem to remember it is in the Bondage (oops) "Freedom in Christ" course. I find it hard to explain what really did happen. As it is the foundation for what Jesus came to do, could you write any more on this? Val P

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    1. Thank you, Val P!

      A sound understanding of events in Eden and their consequences is of such great importance in having a sound understanding of exactly why Christ came! An erroneous view of and teaching on Eden, of the kind referred to here in this article, can so easily spawn other wrong teaching, for if what is foundational is misrepresented, what of that which is constructed upon it? There is solid Rock, and there is shifting sand...

      Thank you for your suggestion about writing something on this. I will certainly bear it in mind!

      With very best wishes in Him,
      Rob.

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  2. The watchman4wales back to his very best form!

    Well done Rob!

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    1. Thank you - I appreciate the encouragement!

      All glory to the Name that is above all others!

      In Him,
      Rob.

      Delete
  3. I agree with everything you have said about tithing. Definitely a command to ancient Israel and no other. I wonder how many struggle to do this with a genuine heart, thinking they are obeying God? I feel quite disturbed about it and wonder what I can do to reach out to people in this bind.

    When I attended a Pentecostal church tithing was voluntary but 10% was said to be something many did and signed up to because the church could get tax relief on it. I think that's probably as far as the church in general should go. I recall at the time a neighbouring aog church had got really heavy and people were handing over jewellery including engagement rings as well as cash. They were emotionally blackmailed into this. I think what Word of faith preachers are doing is just as bad. No one should be pressured.

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    1. Thank you, Nick, for voicing your support for this piece.

      What you share here about this AOG church is just heartbreaking. People are being so grievously misled, and I so echo what you say, in wondering just how many folks are really struggling when trying to comply with their leaders' wrong teaching, thinking they are thereby pleasing God while all the while they are in bondage. I hope and pray that at least someone who needs to know the truth about tithing will happen upon this article, and it will speak liberation into their lives.

      Best wishes in Him,
      Rob.

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  4. Passing a dish around at any gathering, immediately puts pressure on people to give whether their heart is in it or not. If God wants someone to give, then He will decree it and He WILL bring the funds that are needed to further His purposes, whether a dish is in sight or not. We SO need to trust God with our lives....

    If we don't trust in Him, then we can be sure that we will be working against Him. It is a big ask but we must come before Him with our wants and needs and at time of struggle and surrender ourselves. It is the only way.

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    1. Hi, and thanks for your comment!

      God will indeed make more than adequate provision for anything that is truly His purpose. We have to trust Him, as you say, and seek to please Him and not men. As it is written, "Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord." (Jeremiah 17:5)

      Best wishes in Him,
      Rob.

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  5. Thank you for this article on tithing Rob. It is as you say being used as a form of taxation on church members by Word of Faith adherents. God graciously delivered me out of the Word of Faith movement over twenty years ago. I pray your warning about this erroneous teaching will rescue many other believers. God bless you. Alexa.

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    1. Thank you so much for your encouraging comment, Alexa!

      I do so hope and pray that this piece will be used to open eyes to the wretchedness of this false teaching, which takes people out of Cross-won liberty into bondage. So heartening too that you're able to testify to your own release from the clutches of the terrible and deadly deceptions of the Word of Faith movement.

      All glory to His Name!
      God bless you too!
      Rob.

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  6. The words of Jesus will be seen by millions of people this Easter, thanks to a new evangelistic campaign organised by Howard Conder of Revelation Television!!

    The link is: http://www.christian.org.uk/news/words-jesus-feature-london-buses/

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    1. An Easter thought for Mr. Howard Conder, courtesy of Abraham Lincoln:

      "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."

      An illusion of righteousness is just that, Mr. Conder. An illusion...

      In Him,
      Rob.

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    2. What a shocking reply Mr Thomas!!

      You have the nerve to criticise what Howard Conder is doing for our Great Saviour at This Special Easter Time on television and on the streets of London while you hide away behind your little computer!!

      The Lord Rebuke you!!

      Delete
    3. Strangely enough, I always put my name to everything I write. So is it not really you who is hiding behind your computer, Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms. Anonymous?

      In Him,
      Rob.

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    4. You did not answer my question Mr Thomas you coward!

      You have become one very sad individual just criticising good Christian Leaders from your anonymity in Merthyr.

      For the record, my name is Alison!

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    5. Alison, you call me a coward for not answering your question, but you haven't actually asked me a question to give an answer to!

      Just what "anonymity in Merthyr" are you referring to? I have never been anonymous, Alison! Anonymous means 'someone whose name is unknown or withheld. I'll say it again, and the evidence is everywhere on this blog, I always put my name to everything I write, while you on the other hand had to be prompted to give me yours. And it's never been a secret that I live in Merthyr Tydfil. What hiding? What anonymity? What question? What "good Christian leaders?"

      Abuse me if you will; that is your prerogative. But you really need to think long and hard as to where exactly such abuse is coming from.

      In Him,
      Rob.

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  7. Condor is ecumenical. Christ is not. That's enough information for any believer.

    Anonymous, I may be wrong but as far as I can recall the words, the Lord rebuke you, are uttered twice in the scriptures. Once by the archangel Michael and more fearfully by the Lord Himself. Perhaps you should meditate on that a while prayerfully and consider if you should be saying it to another believer.

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    1. Thank you, Nick!

      As mentioned in my reply to this lady above, she really needs to consider exactly how she is behaving, and what she is saying.

      As for Howard Conder being a "good Christian leader" - which is what I think Alison is indicating she believes - there's more than enough evidence to conclusively prove otherwise!

      Best wishes in Him,
      Rob.

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  8. No Christian disputes the fact that the words of Jesus, displayed on London's buses is a good thing! However, the initial message from Alison had nothing in connection with the relevant article/blog on The Iniquitous Imposition of Tithing. Rather, she was clearly intent on two purposes:

    1. Having a personal dig at Rob Thomas. - (Who as a "Watchman on the Wall" has shown much spiritual discernment and warned people about the dangers of following Howard Conder, who has proven he cannot be trusted as a "Good Christian Leader"!) 

    2. Lifting up the name of Howard Conder for praise!

    Let us remind ourselves that only God is good and worthy of praise!

    It is also important we understand and acknowledge that Yeshua / Jesus is "The Passover Lamb" and that the term "Easter" is not Biblical, rather it comes from the pagan Babylonian goddess, Ishtar. See here:

    http://www.thefreepressonline.co.uk/news/5/2220.htm

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    1. Hi, and thank you for your comment and your lucid observations!

      I would loudly echo your pertinent reminder that God alone is good and worthy of our praise. All glory be to His Name, and His alone!

      Thank you also for your timely pointing out of the pagan origins of "Easter" and the link detailing this. Much food for thought. We serve, we honour and we celebrate the sacrificial Passover Lamb, who is risen indeed and ascended to the right hand of the Father, making intercession for us! We must diminish. He must increase! And we must earnestly contend for the Faith once delivered, come what may!

      Best wishes in Jesus/Yeshua our Lord and Saviour,
      Rob.

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  9. I had exactly the same comment Rob. I think the alter egos of a certain person seeking to cause mischief are at work again here. The evidence against Conder is overwhelming as we all know. He is openly ecumenical and takes money from false teachers.. enough said I think! Great post by the way. God bless.

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    1. Hi Treena! Good to hear from you!

      Very interesting to hear that you had the same line cast in your direction also. It is certainly an exercise in mischief making, and a venomous one at that; it says much about the spiritual condition of this person.

      But with the shield of faith we quench the fiery darts aimed at us, knowing that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but powers and principalities.

      With very best wishes in Him,
      Rob.

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  10. Did not have the courage to post my last comments then Mr Thomas!

    Some "watchman" you are!

    Alison

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    1. Alison, there ARE no comments received from you since the last one above, of 12th. April, which I both posted and answered. I've checked the comments received, comments flagged up as spam by Blogger, and my email notifications, and there's NOTHING. Last time you called me a coward for not answering your question when you hadn't asked me any question. Now you say I don't have the courage to post comments which I haven't received!

      I really have had enough now of your mischief and your malice. Please read and note well Galatians 5:22-23 on the fruit of the Spirit. As you can see, I've posted this new comment of yours, but I'm now giving you notice that I'll give you no further space to pour your venom out onto this Christian site. Please think very long and very hard about my last reply to you, which will indeed be my last.

      In Him,
      Rob.

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  11. Rob,
    I frequently post on Treena's blog primarily because we share so much theological ground, plus she has a great willingness to discuss these scriptural matters.

    There are also a great many areas that we DON'T agree on, such as pre-destination/election/Calvinism/Nephilim, and no doubt other things as well! But despite all of our MANY short comings (which are a great many!) It is ONLY by God's grace ALONE that any of us will be saved at all in the last Day.

    We are ever told to "grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" 2 Peter 3.18, and is it not that we should always endevour to do?

    I am so very, very glad that despite all the very great and many theological shortcomings that I could 'attack' you with; I must confess that they pale into ABSOLUTE insignificance compared with our unity on the wickedness of ecumenism!

    The ecumenical spirit is from the pits of hell. Again, I am so glad that you CAN see this (and many don't-so very sadly).

    May we all grow in grace and truth.
    And may God be pleased to bless your ministry.

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    1. Hi Colin!

      Thanks for your comment. I'm very pleased that despite the fact that you obviously disagree with aspects of my theology, you can gracefully put these differences aside to express solidarity with my stance on ecumenism. It is, as you so rightly say, from the pit of Hell; it is the spirit of antichrist at work, and its determined destination is Rome and the absolute reversal of the Reformation. The blind are leading the blind right into the Vatican's demonic ditch.

      May we all indeed grow in grace and truth!

      Best wishes in Him,
      Rob.

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  12. What a hypocrite you are Thomas.

    You do not post the comments of Alison then state that you will not tolerate any further publications from her because she speaks the truth about you and your lonely isolation in Merthyr behind your keyboard.

    You have become a complete joke these days, afraid to go out, afraid to meet in any sort of company more than about four people. What is a matter with you man???

    The Lord will be both unhappy with you and will continue to rebuke you in your very shallow position of claiming to be a "Christian" let alone a Watchman For Wales, which as you know, is now a lie!!

    I pray that that He will have mercy on you as the very sad individual you have become!

    Bet you do not post criticism?? If you do not, I know someone you will, you hypocrite!!

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    1. Sue Marks, the evidence is absolutely everywhere on this blog that I do indeed post criticism, including this example from yourself. (Though I would actually categorize it more as abuse rather than criticism).

      I've posted all Alison's comments that I've received, and answered them all. How do you know who I meet with, and how many? What a pair of malicious gossips you are! I leave you both in the Lord's hands to deal with; I hereby give you notice that this will be the last comment I'll publish from you also, Sue, and my last word to you is this: as I also recommended to your friend, please read Galatians 5:22-23. And as it says in Matthew 7:17: "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit." Please think on these things. For your sake, not for mine.

      In Him,
      Rob.

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    2. As I know Rob personally I would like to say that he is one of the nicest most selfless people you are ever likely to meet, there is no need for the negative put downs be kind to each other life is short

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    3. Thank you so much for your kind words in my support! In all honesty, I'm neither that nice nor selfless a person, and am absolutely just another sinner undeservedly saved by grace alone! I've come to expect abuse doing this work; The Lord warned us that we would be hated for His Name's sake...

      Best wishes in Him,
      Rob.

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  13. Empty comments from empty people, Rob. Clouds without water. God bless you and yours and remember Luke 6:26.

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    1. I really appreciate your message of encouragement, brother! And thank you for bringing into remembrance Luke 6:26. Yes, as deeply unpleasant as it is to receive such "hate mail" I'd be far more worried if I didn't get any! Jesus warned us that we would be hated, not loved, for His Name's sake.

      May God bless you and yours too!
      Rob.

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  14. Well said Rob. I am guessing this is the same Sue who posts on Neville Stephens blog, as it is the same malevolent spirit at work.

    Dennis.

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    1. Hi, Dennis!

      I believe that you are quite correct in your assumption. I do hope that both these ladies will indeed read and ponder deeply on the words of Galatians 5:22-23 and Matthew 7:17, as they very much need to. Thank you for voicing your support for my reply; I much appreciate it!

      With best wishes in Him,
      Rob.

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  15. They are all one of the same malevolant spirit. They are manipulators and deceivers, it is clear to all. No weapon formed against you Rob, your family or Treena Gisborn and her family will prosper. The Lord is your strength and shield.
    God Bless and Kèep you all.

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    1. Thank you, my friend, for your kind words of encouragement. It just blows me away that "Christians" can conspire together to conduct such a campaign of open hatred.

      But the "hate mail" simply shows these people up for what they are; they don't even realize the great irony that it is themselves who they are condemning by their unrighteous words and deeds.

      I have peace in Him, who so gloriously declared:

      "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)

      God bless and keep you too!
      Rob.

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  16. Alison / Sue, please note well that my last words to you are to be found above. Please read and digest.

    In Him,
    Rob.

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    1. It was me you prat, not Ali or Sue!!

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    2. I publish this comment, Mike, now that you've been prompted to step out of the shadows of anonymity - and I also publish the comment below - simply to show my readers the malevolent and mocking spirit of those who have so unrighteously conspired against me.

      For the benefit of my readers, this is the anonymous comment received today, which I now know is from Mike:

      You claim that "you have peace in Him"! What happened last year then Mr Thomas? You are a hypocrite!

      Through all trying times in the flesh, Mike, my spirit finds its peace in Him and His promises! I hope you find the same blessed assurance in your own experience.

      Call me a hypocrite and a prat if you will; both these communications reveal, Mike, that you are a gentleman who like your friends Alison and Sue, also really needs to read and digest the words of Galatians 5:22-23 and Matthew 7:17.

      And these will be my last words to you also.

      In Him,
      Rob.

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  17. It is up to you whether you want to post this or not-edit as you see fit.

    Frankly I am quite astonished at the way Neville and his friend (s) have attacked you. Reading through some of the above posts and on his blog; why can't they desist from this dreadful nonsense? It is almost a form of persecution, albeit mild at the moment.
    Are there people actually monitoring your daily movements? It would seem like that to me! How on earth do they know where you go, or what you do? Is a man not at all entitled to his privacy? Do they not know a Church can be as little as 2 or 3-Matt 18.20? Who would want to fellowship with these people-how correct, they have a malevolent spirit.
    Are these people Christians? How very sinister.

    I live some 200 miles away-thank God!

    Every blessing.

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    1. Hi, and thank you for writing in with your astute observations!

      There is nothing remotely Christian about this conspiracy of character assassination. Such malevolence has only one source. Jesus warned us that we would be hated for His Name's sake, and all this really brings the truth of that warning home to me. But in thinking that they condemn me by their words, it is actually themselves who they condemn. Such an irony and incredible folly! I leave them in the Lord's hands.

      Thanks again for your (unedited) comment, which is much appreciated!

      With best wishes in Him,
      Rob.

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  18. Hi Rob
    Just want to say your last three posts have been excellent, you have touched on three very clear themes but are in essence one!! That is how the people of GOD seeking to live for God, be obedient to God are being fleeced and conned not by those who oppose the church but by those who lead it!! And then have the nerve to say its the enemy!!
    Time for a truth revolution.
    Keep posting Rob and keep exposing, challenge the way we think and what we have grown complacent at, Godly discernment!! Just because they write a book,appear on TV have all the trappings we should not just accept they are right!! Godly discernment is getting as rare as rocking horse droppings.
    Rob you will always get flack and those who attack you and your family rather than consider what you have written. Not saying you are always right because we are all flawed but admire you commitment to stick your head above the parapet whether from the behind the computer keyboard or MacDonald's

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    1. Hi Neil, and thanks so much for voicing such support and encouragement. I am so appreciative of the kind and thoughtful words of yourself and of others who have taken the time to leave comments here in support of myself and the work I try to do here on this blog.

      A very important point you touch upon is that every one of us is flawed. I'm certainly not the fount of all knowledge, with all the answers. Far from it! In this life, we all only get to see through a glass darkly, and will only know in part. ((1 Corinthians 13:12). Full understanding is firmly future tense. But we can, indeed must, be open to learning and to correction. Salvation is one thing. Sanctification is something else.

      The primary purpose of this work is to make people think, and to test the spirits, and to check everything against Scripture which is the ultimate litmus test of all Truth.

      These are perilous times, and Christians cannot afford to be complacent and shouldn't take anything at face value, for there is a very great seduction and cunningly designed deception abroad.

      "And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed." (Romans 13:11)

      With very best wishes in Him,
      Rob.

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  19. Hi Rob, I didn't like it there either. Not a good feeling.I now go to a church in brackla where I feel welcome. God bless. Peter Harry Brown.

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    1. Hi Peter!

      I'm assuming you're referring to The Vine? All the churches referenced in this article are ones to be avoided at all costs! Encouraging to hear that you are among others I know of who've put this grievous Word of Faith operation safely behind them!

      God bless you too, brother!
      With best wishes in Him,
      Rob.

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